Building an effective interview strategy to find your dream job! - Dan Potts CEO at The Career Coach

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This podcast is sponsored by Kinexis Recruit,

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Ireland's leading digital recruitment agency.

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Whether you're looking to reach top talents,

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considering a career switch, or in need of guidance

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on the ever -changing talent landscape, partnering

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with Kinexis is a no -brainer. Hey everyone,

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welcome to the Interview Expert Podcast. I'm

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your host Owen Murray, the CEO of YourHeart .ie.

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I will help your business identify, attract and

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retain top talent, cheaper and faster. Thanks

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to each and every one of you who come back to

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listen, learn and grow. This podcast is where

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hiring managers from diverse backgrounds share

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their insights to support you on your interview

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journey. Join us as we explore tips, strategies

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and real world experiences to help you ace your

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next interview and land your dream job. In today's

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episode, join me in welcoming Dan Potts. Dan

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is a seasoned career coach with over 14 years

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of experience working with clients from all corners

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of the globe. He takes a collaborative, creative

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and open -minded approach to help his clients

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explore their passions, lead fulfilling lives

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and reach their full potential as both professionals

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and individuals. As a business leader, Dan has

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worked with clients across various industries

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and has extensive experience in recruiting for

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global businesses. This gives him a unique insight

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into the hiring process and profile building,

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ensuring his Clients receive real -world insights

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into their professional journeys and get the

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most value out of their programs. Dan's commitment

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to his clients is unwavering and his guarantee

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is that he will work tirelessly to help them

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achieve excellence with positivity, realism,

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optimism and a willingness to support their success.

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If you're ready for a change, Dan will be right

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there for you, offering his expertise in career

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mindset and life coaching. Let's dive in. Don,

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how are you? Welcome to the show. Very good,

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Owen. How are you keeping? I'm great. How's your

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week going? Good. Busy, as always. Loads going

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on, but yeah, very, very good, thankfully. Loads

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happening now in the market, so all good. Very

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good. Well, you're very welcome. And just for

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our listeners to set the scene a little bit,

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so myself and Don met at New Frontiers Phase

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1, which is run by Enterprise Ireland. And for

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anyone out there who wants to start their own

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businesses and has an idea, I'd highly recommend

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New Frontiers, who will actually support you

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develop your business plan. So I'll add a New

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Frontiers link to the episode. But I just wanted

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to tell our audience where we met Dan. And we

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started talking about this podcast and felt that

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Dan would be a great... guest on the show and

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he's going to share all his tips and tricks for

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all our listeners. So, Dan, back to you. Would

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you be able to share a brief overview of your,

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I suppose, your background and your expertise

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for our listeners? Yeah, absolutely. So, obviously,

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Dan Potts is the CEO and founder of The Career

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Coach. We actually started the business about

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three years ago. Prior to that and the reason

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I kind of went on that journey really, I suppose,

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from a career coaching standpoint is I actually

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set out my own career not really understanding

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what I want to do, where my own values would

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really align in terms of the market. So what

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I want to do long -term, that kind of set me

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on my own journey then of really figuring out

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what that would look like. It looked like natural

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testing, went into multiple different roles,

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working across different areas and that led me

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to over time working in consulting and really

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building talent strategies with organizations.

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I did that both mainly in the UK to begin with

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and then branched out into a little bit more

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internationally and then did that globally for

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quite some time and then came to Portland and

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really looked at the job market here. As part

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of that exploration I identified there was obviously

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large amounts of opportunities happening and

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everything else but there was a little bit of

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misunderstanding in terms of what the market

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needed and what was being provided in it, specifically

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let's say from the recruitment to candidate I

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suppose engagement levels and what the candidates

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could reasonably expect of recruiters and vice

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versa. So really that's where it kind of opened

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up a pathway for the career coach where for us

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really we focused in on helping those individuals

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ready for recruiters if you like in terms of

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being able to present themselves in the right

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way and as Irish people and in general I don't

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think that we're not the very forthcoming or

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forward in terms of how we bring across who we

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are and the the value we can bring for an individual

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to a company and I think that's probably the

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biggest challenge for most people is actually

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being talking about themselves and the unique

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value that they can bring. I think that's always

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a challenging area for most people where they

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think they might be talking themselves up too

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much not able to deliver whereas actually the

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converse is true that we don't talk about ourselves

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enough and talk about the value we can bring

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because actually we're very very good at delivery

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and that's not just here that's paid that's actually

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internationally as well so for ourselves really

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that where we focus with individuals is helping

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them figure out number one where their unique

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value is, number two is actually putting in the

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right strategies that they have or that they

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need in order to be successful and then applying

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that with the right effort gets them the right

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results. So we've been doing that over the last

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three years and it's been going pretty well thankfully

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getting the right outcome for people and really

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looking at how we accelerate their progress.

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Fantastic. So you mentioned something there in

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your unique selling point. And that's actually

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something that, you know, I say to my clients

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as well is that you need to understand what that

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unique selling point is and be able to sell it

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in interview. Right. That, you know, that makes

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you different than the next candidate that they're

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going to interview straight after you. So you

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kind of you kind of touched on what I was going

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to. to ask but I'm going to ask anyway what do

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you think sets apart successful candidates during

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an interview process from the rest on? Yeah I

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think the unique selling point I think is a really

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important piece but I think the biggest thing

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is those that have done that preparation to figure

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that out right so if some people can figure that

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out naturally they can understand it's a combination

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of multiple things and while we all in the same

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way someone might follow a similar pathway in

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terms of education or experience we might all

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have those similar steps. It's actually how it

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impacts us as an individual and our personality

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combined with those experiences is really where

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our unique selling points come from and how we

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think about the world in a unique way and trying

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to align that with the right company. So I think

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while it's a really important step to get that

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unique selling point it's also figuring out the

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companies that you're trying to align with because

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if your unique selling point is very creative

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and everything else and you're going to apply

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for a company that's not really about the creativity

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side or the innovation side they're more about

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following the repeatable excellence they already

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have in place then that's not going to be the

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right area for you so no matter how good your

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unique selling point is it's not going to align

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with that business so I think it's the marrying

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of your unique selling point with the company's

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objectives and what they really promote as their

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key values I think is always going to separate

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the right candidate so the perfect people they

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get that right back The balance with that is

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always going to get the right outcome. So are

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you saying then that maybe, for example, if a

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candidate is applying to a company and they feel

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their unique selling point would not maybe potentially

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add value to that business, should they not apply,

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do you think? Or what do you think they should

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do? Yeah, I think it's a fair question and something

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we get asked regularly. In some respects, people

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would say, no, you should always apply and all

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this sort of stuff. I actually disagree. I think

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it's not about trying to be all things to all

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people. I think it's about leaning into who you

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are as an individual and looking at the business

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and being strategic with that. And sometimes

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that does mean that there's opportunities that

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you feel that are suitable in terms of the characteristics

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of the role or the responsibilities and deliverables

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of the role, but ultimately aren't actually going

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to align with you as an individual or help you

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grow. And I've had that scenario myself. as to

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what I'm going to do to help the areas but I

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interviewed with a number of different businesses

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when I was coming back into the Irish market

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and one of the big things I have to step into

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the recruitment field for a while and I met with

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loads of different businesses and while there

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was loads of opportunities and certain organizations,

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the characteristics and the values of that business

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didn't align with my own. There was nothing to

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say that was wrong with theirs or mine. It was

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more about that marrying together. My unique

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selling point ultimately could work for them

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but was that going to make me follow the right

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career path and develop in the right way, possibly

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not. What I've added is the right level of value

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that I could possibly add to that organization

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possibly not. So it's really about trying to

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figure that out and having gone through that

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pathway that's really what we bring in for our

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coaching as well is how do you identify that,

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how do you understand what that is, what kind

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of questions could you ask to figure that out

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during the interview process because everything

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might be brilliant in terms of the interview

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process as well and sometimes we don't know those

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those areas until you get into the interview

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process. So it's a constant evaluation process

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that you could be going on from when you look

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at the job description, right up until you get

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to the stage of the final round interview, providing

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you get to that stage and figuring out is that

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process for you? Obviously, if you can identify

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that early on in the process, all the better

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because it saves you time and allows you to focus

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on the right opportunity. I'd love to hear Dan,

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like someone who maybe went through that whole

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process with you, so reached out to the career

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coach and you know, dealt with someone there

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and maybe didn't know how to sell themselves

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or even knew what their unique selling point

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and maybe what result they got to. Have you any

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kind of story to share like that? Yeah, absolutely.

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So I'm sure you won't mind me saying that he's

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a close friend, I'd say nearly in some respects

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now. I've worked with him over the last few years

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and he's been on quite a good journey himself.

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So there's an individual flies on actually who

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approached us who was stepping out into he'd

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worked in multiple different contracts very much

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in the financial field and one of his biggest

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challenges was and where he was falling down

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in interview processes he was seeing the fact

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he had done multiple contracts as an IFU and

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that's the nature of that field specific at the

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early stages where you have to win and do certain

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contracts in this AML or KYC arena and that was

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becoming a roadblock for him in terms of his

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own mindset going into the interview and the

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results he was getting. But as soon as we actually

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split the narrative, in terms of how we approach

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it, because actually, when you look at it, if

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you've done multiple contracts, as any contractor

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will know, you're constantly under the cost to

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actually deliver much quicker. You don't have

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the same ramp up time. You don't get the same

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onboarding timelines or anything else. It is

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immediately into the role to deliver it to the

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right KPIs and SLAs. And that actually means

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that you have to run at a really quick pace.

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So when we flipped the narrative for himself

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and actually looked at it as a positive instead

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of a negative and actually started talking about

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well actually having landed into these roles,

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delivered this value in this role then moving

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on to these other arenas or these other companies

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and working in slightly different arenas it allowed

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him to have a broader breadth of experience being

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able to deliver in multiple different fields

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in a much quicker time frame which actually meant

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that he was a more competent candidate than those

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that had spent three or four years just in one

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role because they only had seen part of the process

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rather than the impact of that process in terms

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of their unique that they were following across

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the business which meant that they understand

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that stood end to end what value they were delivering

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and how to do it quicker. So he actually secured

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the role on that basis and since then he's gone

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on his own pathway and really figured out what

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he wants to do. He's very successful in that

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role and he's actually followed as a he's actually

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attained careers completely. we've helped them

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on that pathway as well but it's always a very

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interesting thing how we perceive potential negatives

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in our past or our experience isn't necessarily

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the truth and what's actually being seen in the

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market or how you can actually portray it in

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the market in the right way. So again we're a

00:12:02.179 --> 00:12:03.899
little bit negative by nature so sometimes looking

00:12:03.899 --> 00:12:05.860
at it in that way is natural but at the same

00:12:05.860 --> 00:12:08.179
point you know how we articulate ourselves is

00:12:08.179 --> 00:12:11.269
actually going to get the right outcome. Yeah,

00:12:11.350 --> 00:12:15.029
I think that's great. I would imagine that maybe

00:12:15.029 --> 00:12:17.590
one of your coaches sat down with that, with

00:12:17.590 --> 00:12:19.710
your friend, the person you're talking about,

00:12:20.590 --> 00:12:22.909
and actually discussed that with them and had

00:12:22.909 --> 00:12:27.129
those sort of open conversations. I think there's

00:12:27.129 --> 00:12:30.570
something called self -awareness here that we're

00:12:30.570 --> 00:12:33.950
kind of touching on. And sometimes candidates

00:12:33.950 --> 00:12:37.659
that are interviewing don't actually aren't self

00:12:37.659 --> 00:12:39.580
-aware and don't know these things about themselves,

00:12:39.720 --> 00:12:41.740
right? Maybe need support from someone else to

00:12:41.740 --> 00:12:44.820
find that out and then deliver that in an interview

00:12:44.820 --> 00:12:48.460
process. Thereby, you know, and it could be the

00:12:48.460 --> 00:12:50.779
reason that that person gets the job, right?

00:12:51.500 --> 00:12:54.320
Exactly. And I think, like you said, it's that

00:12:54.320 --> 00:12:56.179
process of kind of exploration, obviously having

00:12:56.179 --> 00:12:58.460
the first step in that scenario for himself to

00:12:58.460 --> 00:13:00.360
reach out for ourselves and understand that they

00:13:00.360 --> 00:13:02.039
weren't getting there in the right time frame,

00:13:02.059 --> 00:13:03.480
but they weren't getting the right outcome. They

00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:05.799
couldn't understand what it was. And funny enough,

00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:07.399
the biggest challenge they felt that they had

00:13:07.399 --> 00:13:08.580
was actually one of their biggest strengths.

00:13:09.039 --> 00:13:13.580
So it's understanding how that can be articulated

00:13:13.580 --> 00:13:16.000
in the right way and making sure that you don't

00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:18.120
have these things naturally impact you or have

00:13:18.120 --> 00:13:19.639
them in the back of your mind that's actually

00:13:19.639 --> 00:13:21.879
leading you down a negative track as opposed

00:13:21.879 --> 00:13:24.759
to actually looking at how it can reinforce your

00:13:24.759 --> 00:13:27.299
profile and the positive impact you can have

00:13:27.299 --> 00:13:31.769
on a business. Yeah, absolutely. It's just about

00:13:31.769 --> 00:13:34.509
understanding that about yourself, isn't it?

00:13:34.870 --> 00:13:39.470
Yeah, absolutely. Dan, what advice would you

00:13:39.470 --> 00:13:42.429
give to you? So I work with a lot of clients

00:13:42.429 --> 00:13:47.250
myself that come to me who have been rejected

00:13:47.250 --> 00:13:53.909
by a multitude of companies. Their job seeking

00:13:53.909 --> 00:13:57.129
could be going on for six, nine, twelve months.

00:13:58.040 --> 00:14:00.639
And unfortunately, what you touched on there

00:14:00.639 --> 00:14:04.980
yourself, you know, negativity can set in, right?

00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:09.620
And your motivation can dip. What would you what

00:14:09.620 --> 00:14:12.019
advice would you give someone like that who,

00:14:12.019 --> 00:14:15.179
you know, has been rejected a multitude of times,

00:14:15.600 --> 00:14:18.080
has gotten to face to face interviews, but now

00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:20.960
their motivation is a bit flat? What would your

00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:24.799
advice to someone like that be? Advice keep going.

00:14:25.470 --> 00:14:27.649
It's always providing the right pathway and what

00:14:27.649 --> 00:14:30.710
you're going to follow, of course. But in terms

00:14:30.710 --> 00:14:33.409
of I guess the challenges, when we're looking

00:14:33.409 --> 00:14:34.909
at people that have been out and we have similar

00:14:34.909 --> 00:14:36.970
scenarios and people approaching us all the time

00:14:36.970 --> 00:14:39.850
in that sort of scenario where they're finding

00:14:39.850 --> 00:14:41.789
it really tough in the market, they're getting

00:14:41.789 --> 00:14:43.990
those constant rejections. Sometimes there's

00:14:43.990 --> 00:14:46.009
a multitude of reasons that can happen. So if

00:14:46.009 --> 00:14:47.889
it's a case where they're getting auto rejections,

00:14:48.250 --> 00:14:49.830
it could be simply a case that it's actually

00:14:49.830 --> 00:14:51.970
their CV, not them. And we say that all the time,

00:14:52.049 --> 00:14:56.289
it's not you, it's your CV. There's obviously

00:14:56.289 --> 00:14:59.009
other parts of that, right? So it can be a combination

00:14:59.009 --> 00:15:01.149
of the approach that they're taking, the business

00:15:01.149 --> 00:15:02.870
that they're going for, the strategy they're

00:15:02.870 --> 00:15:05.950
using. But ultimately, it's about trying to assess

00:15:05.950 --> 00:15:08.649
what companies are they going after? Why do they

00:15:08.649 --> 00:15:11.789
feel that the right fit for them? And we have

00:15:11.789 --> 00:15:13.070
clients that approach all the time and say, listen,

00:15:13.090 --> 00:15:20.309
I'm applied to 500, 600, 1000 even applications.

00:15:20.470 --> 00:15:22.190
And I said, well, okay, well, if we pull that

00:15:22.190 --> 00:15:26.269
apart a little bit, you're applying in a very

00:15:26.269 --> 00:15:28.389
active way and obviously you're very eager and

00:15:28.389 --> 00:15:29.750
obviously there's a huge amount of work so we

00:15:29.750 --> 00:15:31.309
definitely have the right effort going in but

00:15:31.309 --> 00:15:33.529
we definitely don't have the right strategy because

00:15:33.529 --> 00:15:35.649
number one is not that many jobs available in

00:15:35.649 --> 00:15:37.629
that specific sector so you're obviously just

00:15:37.629 --> 00:15:40.110
trying to cover a bit of a scatter gun approach

00:15:40.110 --> 00:15:42.549
and that doesn't really work right so really

00:15:42.549 --> 00:15:44.110
it's about being strategic in what we're doing

00:15:44.110 --> 00:15:46.830
and go back to that understanding our USP and

00:15:46.830 --> 00:15:48.789
the values of the business early on as much as

00:15:48.789 --> 00:15:52.379
possible and why we would align taking it. take

00:15:52.379 --> 00:15:54.519
forward steps to convey that messaging in the

00:15:54.519 --> 00:15:58.259
right way throughout each of your areas, your

00:15:58.259 --> 00:15:59.740
professional profiles, you see these covered

00:15:59.740 --> 00:16:03.259
on LinkedIn, making sure that we have consistency

00:16:03.259 --> 00:16:05.299
and continuity between the messaging that we're

00:16:05.299 --> 00:16:07.399
saying, the experience we have, the deliverables

00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:09.659
that we're bringing forward, making sure we're

00:16:09.659 --> 00:16:11.960
doing those simple steps, tailoring our approach

00:16:11.960 --> 00:16:15.940
in the right way and also then before we do any

00:16:15.940 --> 00:16:17.539
of that in some respect, what I always make sure

00:16:17.539 --> 00:16:20.389
of is that we do a quick sense check. Are we

00:16:20.389 --> 00:16:22.309
on the right pathway? Are we realistic in what

00:16:22.309 --> 00:16:26.090
our expectations are? Are we trying to do too

00:16:26.090 --> 00:16:29.409
much too quick? And having that on its path and

00:16:29.409 --> 00:16:31.889
figuring that piece out even for ourselves and

00:16:31.889 --> 00:16:34.210
pulling that apart and looking at do we need

00:16:34.210 --> 00:16:35.669
to take a little bit of an earlier step or a

00:16:35.669 --> 00:16:38.190
side step slightly in order to follow that pathway?

00:16:38.789 --> 00:16:40.409
And sometimes that is the case and sometimes

00:16:40.409 --> 00:16:42.289
we have to look at okay we need a stepping stone

00:16:42.289 --> 00:16:44.850
before we get to that really ideal role for ourselves

00:16:44.850 --> 00:16:46.529
and that's all right we all have to take those

00:16:46.529 --> 00:16:48.700
steps at times. But in some cases, we don't.

00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:51.220
It's simply been the wrong strategy stepping

00:16:51.220 --> 00:16:53.379
in. So like I said, the big advice I'd probably

00:16:53.379 --> 00:16:55.419
give is, number one, take that time to quickly

00:16:55.419 --> 00:16:57.360
reflect and understand, are we taking the right

00:16:57.360 --> 00:16:59.820
approach? If we need to take a sidestep, what

00:16:59.820 --> 00:17:01.279
does that look like? Why are we taking that?

00:17:01.320 --> 00:17:03.759
How does that lead us back to the right outcome?

00:17:04.680 --> 00:17:07.180
Because realistically now, to be successful,

00:17:07.339 --> 00:17:08.960
we need a career strategy. We need to understand

00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:10.740
why we're doing what we're doing, when we're

00:17:10.740 --> 00:17:13.369
doing it. and what that will mean to long term.

00:17:13.549 --> 00:17:15.549
There's a load of data out there, a load of information

00:17:15.549 --> 00:17:17.650
that we can pull on. There's loads of first success

00:17:17.650 --> 00:17:20.529
stories out there that people can see. And of

00:17:20.529 --> 00:17:22.390
course we have to help people with these regularly,

00:17:22.829 --> 00:17:24.529
but for themselves to be able to take that step.

00:17:24.769 --> 00:17:26.609
And then once we've done that, it's then plotting

00:17:26.609 --> 00:17:29.849
out the key things that we're trying, the messaging

00:17:29.849 --> 00:17:31.410
that we're trying to convey to that business

00:17:31.410 --> 00:17:33.789
and make sure that we're seen as a successful

00:17:33.789 --> 00:17:35.829
candidate or a relevant candidate to that specific

00:17:35.829 --> 00:17:39.190
role so we can get the right engagement. Equally,

00:17:39.349 --> 00:17:40.490
there's loads of strategy we can talk about as

00:17:40.490 --> 00:17:42.769
well in terms of how we can make sure we get

00:17:42.769 --> 00:17:44.589
to that interview stage. But ultimately, starting

00:17:44.589 --> 00:17:48.529
there, I think, is a really important step. Fantastic.

00:17:48.710 --> 00:17:51.009
And I love that word strategy that you're using.

00:17:51.630 --> 00:17:54.390
So, you know, just on what you said there to

00:17:54.390 --> 00:17:56.750
have the right strategy to know your unique selling

00:17:56.750 --> 00:17:59.829
point, to ask yourself why we actually aligned

00:17:59.829 --> 00:18:02.170
to the business we're applying to, to get your

00:18:02.170 --> 00:18:04.529
CV and your cover letter and your LinkedIn right.

00:18:05.640 --> 00:18:10.019
And then ask yourself, what are your expectations?

00:18:10.940 --> 00:18:15.220
So a lot to understand there. But yeah, I love

00:18:15.220 --> 00:18:18.180
that strategy piece. You mentioned cover letters

00:18:18.180 --> 00:18:21.119
there, Dan. I get this question all the time.

00:18:22.259 --> 00:18:25.500
And from being in recruitment for 13 years, I

00:18:25.500 --> 00:18:30.400
would say I didn't really, really cover letters.

00:18:30.579 --> 00:18:33.339
I would jump straight to the CV naturally as

00:18:33.339 --> 00:18:35.990
a recruiter. What are your thoughts on cover

00:18:35.990 --> 00:18:39.569
letters? Do recruiters actually read them? Yeah,

00:18:39.569 --> 00:18:42.829
I would say a lot of the time they don't. In

00:18:42.829 --> 00:18:45.490
some respects, I'll get people to do a quick

00:18:45.490 --> 00:18:48.490
impactful email that kind of covers some of the

00:18:48.490 --> 00:18:50.089
areas in their cover letter if they don't want

00:18:50.089 --> 00:18:52.009
to necessarily incorporate it. I think that's

00:18:52.009 --> 00:18:54.150
always a better approach because if you're sending

00:18:54.150 --> 00:18:55.789
an email, if you're sending it through a platform,

00:18:56.369 --> 00:18:58.329
it tends to be that step, right? So they'll ask

00:18:58.329 --> 00:18:59.650
for a cover letter and you need to look at it.

00:18:59.750 --> 00:19:01.490
Not bad if you don't, but actually do people

00:19:01.490 --> 00:19:04.129
read it? A lot of the time they won't. unfortunately

00:19:04.129 --> 00:19:06.890
but what we can do is if we're sending an email

00:19:06.890 --> 00:19:08.789
in or applying for certain roles and they want

00:19:08.789 --> 00:19:11.529
to have information on email you can copy it

00:19:11.529 --> 00:19:13.430
into the body of the email I think works quite

00:19:13.430 --> 00:19:15.470
well because it means you get the right information

00:19:15.470 --> 00:19:17.609
across in a very quick fire away and if you're

00:19:17.609 --> 00:19:19.069
a cover letter is done correctly and then it

00:19:19.069 --> 00:19:21.190
leads them to the CV but yeah I think most of

00:19:21.190 --> 00:19:23.490
the time unfortunately it's not read. I felt

00:19:23.490 --> 00:19:25.869
that it probably would have been removed a couple

00:19:25.869 --> 00:19:28.170
of years ago certainly in the systems as a requirement

00:19:28.170 --> 00:19:30.690
but every business I talk to there's no no still

00:19:30.690 --> 00:19:33.210
wants cover letters I kill do you read it Not

00:19:33.210 --> 00:19:35.589
that often, but we want to have it just in case.

00:19:37.549 --> 00:19:39.789
It's an interesting dynamic that's at play, but

00:19:39.789 --> 00:19:41.450
I can't see it going for the next little while,

00:19:41.569 --> 00:19:45.109
but I don't think it's going to stick around

00:19:45.109 --> 00:19:49.559
for the next couple of years. Yeah, I think a

00:19:49.559 --> 00:19:52.099
recruiter naturally goes to the most recent role,

00:19:52.220 --> 00:19:55.059
you know, what's most recent that is most relevant,

00:19:55.299 --> 00:19:57.720
really, instead of reading the cover letter,

00:19:58.140 --> 00:20:00.180
especially if the cover letter is so long, they

00:20:00.180 --> 00:20:04.720
just don't have time to read it. So you talked

00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:09.259
about great ways to build a strategy there, you

00:20:09.259 --> 00:20:11.819
know, to secure your dream job, essentially.

00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:15.000
But what are the sort of out of the box sort

00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:19.359
of innovative ways to finding a job, Don? I've

00:20:19.359 --> 00:20:20.960
seen one really cool one, which was interesting.

00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:22.839
They got the job for sure. They actually got

00:20:22.839 --> 00:20:24.900
their CV put onto a cake. I don't know if you've

00:20:24.900 --> 00:20:26.960
seen that one, that kind of going around. That's

00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:29.440
not always going to work exactly right, but they

00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:30.920
sent it into an office which worked really, really

00:20:30.920 --> 00:20:33.019
well. The most effective one that I definitely

00:20:33.019 --> 00:20:36.079
see that everyone can do and doesn't cost anything

00:20:36.079 --> 00:20:37.900
or anything else. It just takes the right effort.

00:20:38.059 --> 00:20:40.019
And again, we come back to that strategy. If

00:20:40.019 --> 00:20:42.380
we look at, and you know this better than anyone,

00:20:42.539 --> 00:20:44.839
in terms of the internal hiring processes and

00:20:44.839 --> 00:20:46.759
the bonuses that are put in place for people

00:20:46.759 --> 00:20:49.359
identifying good quality candidates, businesses

00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:51.940
would rather have referrals into them than have

00:20:51.940 --> 00:20:54.579
to pay for different fees or anything else or

00:20:54.579 --> 00:20:56.079
anything that's going to shorten that recruitment

00:20:56.079 --> 00:20:58.920
cycle to find the right people. So what people

00:20:58.920 --> 00:21:01.440
should really be focusing in on is that network,

00:21:01.519 --> 00:21:03.200
and that network is your network, and I say that

00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:05.750
all the time. with individuals, but it's really

00:21:05.750 --> 00:21:07.490
understanding the value that will bring. It's

00:21:07.490 --> 00:21:09.029
not always about the value it will bring immediately

00:21:09.029 --> 00:21:10.910
for you right now in terms of getting a job.

00:21:10.950 --> 00:21:13.289
That's also a great way, but it's actually who

00:21:13.289 --> 00:21:14.970
you might be working for in the future, who might

00:21:14.970 --> 00:21:17.269
be working for you, or who you could help in

00:21:17.269 --> 00:21:20.109
the future as well. So, one is looking at the

00:21:20.109 --> 00:21:21.450
common connections in the business that you're

00:21:21.450 --> 00:21:23.170
applying to, understanding who they are, trying

00:21:23.170 --> 00:21:26.089
to get an introduction to them, to have conversations

00:21:26.089 --> 00:21:27.690
with them, trying to establish relationships

00:21:27.690 --> 00:21:29.470
with them. And yes, it might seem like it can

00:21:29.470 --> 00:21:32.049
take quite a while, but it can be quite quick.

00:21:32.170 --> 00:21:34.609
if done correctly and following that and building

00:21:34.609 --> 00:21:36.569
up that rapport with the people in the right

00:21:36.569 --> 00:21:38.809
area that could actually be reference referrals

00:21:38.809 --> 00:21:41.430
or provide you as a referral into the business

00:21:41.430 --> 00:21:44.109
should I say. More support you respond to into

00:21:44.109 --> 00:21:46.890
the business in some respect to the hate or team

00:21:46.890 --> 00:21:49.250
you'll still follow the exact same pathway as

00:21:49.250 --> 00:21:52.109
anyone else but the benefit that is it does help

00:21:52.109 --> 00:21:54.269
you overcome some of the challenges that might

00:21:54.269 --> 00:21:56.529
be presented from an ATS or African tracking

00:21:56.529 --> 00:21:58.630
system might overcome some of the challenges

00:21:58.630 --> 00:22:01.140
of being an unknown entity to the business. actually

00:22:01.140 --> 00:22:04.660
being sponsored in does help you overcome some

00:22:04.660 --> 00:22:07.059
of those challenges and accelerate your process

00:22:07.059 --> 00:22:09.440
through the business much quicker and typically

00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:11.579
if there's multiple rounds it'll help manage

00:22:11.579 --> 00:22:13.829
that process much easier. But I'm about 30 %

00:22:13.829 --> 00:22:15.849
more effective than actually applying directly.

00:22:16.549 --> 00:22:18.750
So I've always found that that strategy worked

00:22:18.750 --> 00:22:20.650
really, really well. Of course, all the other

00:22:20.650 --> 00:22:22.970
tools that go with all the other steps you need

00:22:22.970 --> 00:22:25.130
to do as well as this, which is, of course, having

00:22:25.130 --> 00:22:26.849
the right CV, LinkedIn, et cetera, and being

00:22:26.849 --> 00:22:30.690
visible on LinkedIn. So if I go or the recruiters

00:22:30.690 --> 00:22:32.529
or anyone else goes looking for you, they can

00:22:32.529 --> 00:22:35.029
find you quite easily. Whether that's to do with

00:22:35.029 --> 00:22:37.069
your CV or your LinkedIn, they're really important.

00:22:37.130 --> 00:22:39.289
But I think the most effective one I've seen

00:22:39.289 --> 00:22:41.210
to make sure that you accelerate your process

00:22:41.210 --> 00:22:43.660
as quickly as possible is definitely building

00:22:43.660 --> 00:22:45.599
rapport with the right people in the right businesses

00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:47.859
that could actually sponsor you in because they're

00:22:47.859 --> 00:22:50.200
also incentivized on the flip side and from the

00:22:50.200 --> 00:22:53.420
business point of view who recommend people that

00:22:53.420 --> 00:22:55.839
are suitable for the right role and that could

00:22:55.839 --> 00:22:58.259
actually help you get in the get in the door

00:22:58.259 --> 00:23:03.240
much quicker. Yeah absolutely and you know it's

00:23:03.240 --> 00:23:05.420
that kind of jogged my memory as well where you

00:23:05.420 --> 00:23:08.339
know for many of the companies I was in if we

00:23:08.339 --> 00:23:14.009
had two candidates down that final stage and

00:23:14.009 --> 00:23:17.190
the first question the hiring manager would ask

00:23:17.190 --> 00:23:19.130
is how do we source this candidate? So where

00:23:19.130 --> 00:23:22.029
do we get these candidates from? And if one of

00:23:22.029 --> 00:23:25.430
the candidates was referred and the other one

00:23:25.430 --> 00:23:28.650
wasn't, that was definitely a plus for the referral

00:23:28.650 --> 00:23:33.130
candidate, right? And actually there was a kind

00:23:33.130 --> 00:23:35.190
of common trend in all the companies that I worked

00:23:35.190 --> 00:23:39.250
at that around 30 % of our hires were from referrals.

00:23:39.720 --> 00:23:45.339
And usually referrals actually stay with a business

00:23:45.339 --> 00:23:50.539
longer than a non -referral candidate because

00:23:50.539 --> 00:23:54.359
they usually tend to be a better candidate sometimes

00:23:54.359 --> 00:23:57.920
because someone in the business has put their

00:23:57.920 --> 00:24:00.460
name on the line and referred that person in,

00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:05.200
right? So, yeah, it's... It's always a plus for

00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:07.619
you if you have been referred or, as you said,

00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:11.240
sponsored, which I really like as well. One thing

00:24:11.240 --> 00:24:15.440
I heard, one very outside the box technique I

00:24:15.440 --> 00:24:20.180
heard for generating more interviews was that,

00:24:20.180 --> 00:24:24.339
you know, it can be you can feel like you're

00:24:24.339 --> 00:24:26.660
hitting your head against the wall when you're

00:24:26.660 --> 00:24:29.460
sending emails and LinkedIn messages to potential

00:24:29.460 --> 00:24:32.519
hiring managers to get interviews. But I had

00:24:32.519 --> 00:24:35.900
a lady that I was speaking to last week who actually

00:24:35.900 --> 00:24:39.920
sends her CV in to the hiring manager via post

00:24:39.920 --> 00:24:46.420
in a gold envelope. And usually that she felt

00:24:46.420 --> 00:24:49.700
she felt that that got past the gatekeeper. So

00:24:49.700 --> 00:24:52.500
if you were trying to speak to the CEO of a business,

00:24:52.519 --> 00:24:56.359
for example, and they had a PA that was screening

00:24:56.359 --> 00:24:59.259
all their emails. you know, the chance of you

00:24:59.259 --> 00:25:01.380
getting through to that CEO in an email are quite

00:25:01.380 --> 00:25:05.000
slim. But actually sending your CV in a gold

00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:07.880
envelope, she said, generated a lot of interest

00:25:07.880 --> 00:25:10.400
and she started to receive calls from these people.

00:25:11.720 --> 00:25:14.500
So, you know, these things might be going back

00:25:14.500 --> 00:25:16.980
to the old way of doing things could actually

00:25:16.980 --> 00:25:20.599
work in the kind of world we live in. Yeah, it

00:25:20.599 --> 00:25:22.700
definitely does. I mean, who doesn't open a personally

00:25:22.700 --> 00:25:25.099
written letter? Sometimes you might overlook

00:25:25.099 --> 00:25:26.880
the printed ones, whatever it is, but someone

00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:28.680
writes a personal letter, you'll always open

00:25:28.680 --> 00:25:30.640
it, whether you engage it or not, like you say,

00:25:30.920 --> 00:25:33.220
is different. But in terms of getting your CV

00:25:33.220 --> 00:25:35.619
in front of the right people, it's definitely

00:25:35.619 --> 00:25:37.599
a win. And secondly, obviously, in that particular

00:25:37.599 --> 00:25:39.160
scenario, they're obviously getting huge outcomes.

00:25:39.420 --> 00:25:44.119
I love it. It's definitely in a bit of a way

00:25:44.119 --> 00:25:49.970
of doing it, right? Dan, you've shared so many

00:25:49.970 --> 00:25:52.569
tips for our audience there, which is brilliant

00:25:52.569 --> 00:25:56.170
and thank you so much. But what is your top tip

00:25:56.170 --> 00:25:58.589
for a job seeker right now looking for a job?

00:26:00.009 --> 00:26:02.769
I think right now the big thing for me that I

00:26:02.769 --> 00:26:05.859
talk to people about all the time is You need

00:26:05.859 --> 00:26:07.740
to combine the right effort with the right strategy

00:26:07.740 --> 00:26:10.299
and something I talk about regularly. I see so

00:26:10.299 --> 00:26:12.039
many people putting in massive effort and not

00:26:12.039 --> 00:26:13.519
getting the right outcome because they're taking

00:26:13.519 --> 00:26:15.180
the wrong approach. They don't want to sound

00:26:15.180 --> 00:26:17.299
like we talked a little bit earlier on about

00:26:17.299 --> 00:26:19.880
what they're doing, why they're doing it. They're

00:26:19.880 --> 00:26:21.480
applying for roles they think that's what they

00:26:21.480 --> 00:26:23.039
should be doing but after you understanding the

00:26:23.039 --> 00:26:24.980
value that they bring to that business before

00:26:24.980 --> 00:26:28.220
they apply is the first step. And I think the

00:26:28.220 --> 00:26:30.839
right strategy without the right effort And I've

00:26:30.839 --> 00:26:32.660
seen this again as well where people are brilliant,

00:26:32.700 --> 00:26:34.980
but they're just not committing themselves to

00:26:34.980 --> 00:26:37.259
following the path, following the process through

00:26:37.259 --> 00:26:39.819
and putting in that sometimes that groundwork

00:26:39.819 --> 00:26:41.940
again won't get the right outcome. So having

00:26:41.940 --> 00:26:45.220
that perfect combination between you and understanding

00:26:45.220 --> 00:26:48.019
your unit value will make sure that you get the

00:26:48.019 --> 00:26:52.220
right outcome. Yeah, I think absolutely. And

00:26:52.220 --> 00:26:54.980
I think that was common theme throughout, you

00:26:54.980 --> 00:26:57.640
know, the strategy, but also the effort there,

00:26:57.740 --> 00:26:59.599
you know, you hit the nail on the head there.

00:27:00.089 --> 00:27:02.150
You can have a great strategy, but it's about

00:27:02.150 --> 00:27:06.509
actually implementing it and, you know, executing

00:27:06.509 --> 00:27:10.650
it well, which is so, so important. As you said,

00:27:10.869 --> 00:27:13.650
the perfect combination. Dan, have you any book

00:27:13.650 --> 00:27:15.769
or podcast recommendations for our listeners?

00:27:17.029 --> 00:27:19.450
Well, you've put down a really good one in terms

00:27:19.450 --> 00:27:22.589
of the examples you're asking. So that kind of

00:27:22.589 --> 00:27:24.029
person has been out for six, nine months. The

00:27:24.029 --> 00:27:25.910
negativity can kind of set in exactly. So one

00:27:25.910 --> 00:27:28.210
of the things I actually found in my own journey

00:27:28.210 --> 00:27:31.099
that I've really enjoyed was Tony Robbins Awaken

00:27:31.099 --> 00:27:33.079
the Giants within. And that's actually more about

00:27:33.079 --> 00:27:35.160
the self -talk, the figuring out those different

00:27:35.160 --> 00:27:39.859
pieces, understanding the actual incredible abilities

00:27:39.859 --> 00:27:42.099
we all have and how to actually pinpoint those

00:27:42.099 --> 00:27:44.000
within themselves. So I think for me, that's

00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:46.180
always been something I refer back to regularly,

00:27:46.500 --> 00:27:48.019
something that gives people on a regular basis.

00:27:48.180 --> 00:27:51.460
And I think that would probably be the most helpful

00:27:51.460 --> 00:27:53.599
for anyone in that particular scenario as well.

00:27:54.500 --> 00:27:58.279
Where could our listeners find that link? So

00:27:58.279 --> 00:28:00.440
Awaken to Join Within, you can definitely find

00:28:00.440 --> 00:28:04.240
in, I always listen, I do audible books, so audible

00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:07.339
for sure, but you can get it at any major store

00:28:07.339 --> 00:28:08.720
as well if you actually prefer the paperback

00:28:08.720 --> 00:28:12.779
copies or actually physically reading it. So

00:28:12.779 --> 00:28:15.940
any instance or anything like that. Fantastic,

00:28:16.200 --> 00:28:19.259
I'll add the name of it to the bottom of this

00:28:19.259 --> 00:28:23.339
episode as well. Dan, where can our listeners

00:28:23.339 --> 00:28:26.660
find you? So you can find us on our main website,

00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:29.859
which is www .thecareer -coach .com or any of

00:28:29.859 --> 00:28:32.059
our social media channels, which is The Career

00:28:32.059 --> 00:28:34.799
Coach Official on Instagram or The Career Coach

00:28:34.799 --> 00:28:37.539
on LinkedIn. We'd be happy to. There's loads

00:28:37.539 --> 00:28:39.339
of information, loads of insights shared across

00:28:39.339 --> 00:28:41.259
those platforms. And if anyone has any questions

00:28:41.259 --> 00:28:42.460
or queries, we'd be delighted to help in any

00:28:42.460 --> 00:28:45.660
way we could. Fantastic, Dan. It's been a pleasure

00:28:45.660 --> 00:28:48.519
to have you on. Thank you for joining me. And

00:28:48.519 --> 00:28:50.819
yeah, I'll add your links to the bottom of this

00:28:50.819 --> 00:28:53.569
episode as well. But thank you so much. Thank

00:28:53.569 --> 00:28:56.210
you for listening to The Interview Expert. Make

00:28:56.210 --> 00:28:59.670
sure to check out our website yourhire .ie where

00:28:59.670 --> 00:29:02.349
you can subscribe to the show and also find out

00:29:02.349 --> 00:29:04.990
more interview tips and tricks. While you're

00:29:04.990 --> 00:29:07.170
at it, if you found value in this show, we'd

00:29:07.170 --> 00:29:09.269
appreciate a rating wherever you get your podcasts.

00:29:09.710 --> 00:29:11.630
Or if you simply tell a friend about the show,

00:29:11.650 --> 00:29:14.309
that would help us out too. Owen Murray is available

00:29:14.309 --> 00:29:17.390
for private coaching. See our website for details

00:29:17.390 --> 00:29:21.470
at yourhire .ie. Until next time, do good, feel

00:29:21.470 --> 00:29:22.630
good and be good.