The Importance of a LinkedIn profile and inclusive hiring with Raul Momand, Sales Leader, LinkedIn

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Hey everyone, welcome to the Interview Expert Podcast.

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I'm your host, Owen Murray, an interview coach, podcaster and recruitment manager.

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Thanks to each of you who come back to listen, learn and grow.

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This podcast is where hiring managers from diverse backgrounds share their insights to

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support you on your interview journey.

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Join us as we explore tips, strategies and real-world experiences to help you ace your

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next interview and land your dream job.

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And welcome to today's episode, The Importance of a Good LinkedIn Profile.

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I am thrilled to have a special guest with me today, Raoul Mamand, a sales leader at

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LinkedIn.

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I believe you'll truly enjoy this one.

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In this episode, Raoul and I discuss how important your LinkedIn profile is when looking for

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a new job.

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But that's not all.

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We'll also delve into Raoul's remarkable journey, his mother being a refugee and how

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he made his way to Ireland, eventually thriving in his career.

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So whether you're a job seeker, eager to crack the interview code or someone seeking inspiration

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from an incredible life story, this episode is packed with valuable insights from a unique

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perspective.

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So let's get started.

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But before we do, I have one favour to ask you.

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The majority of people who watch and listen to this podcast have yet to hit the follow

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or subscribe button.

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I can't tell you how important this is.

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If you hit that follow or subscribe button, I promise I will get more guests that you

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want to see.

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And thank you for lending me your ears, whether you're walking, running, at the gym, walking

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the dog, cooking, whatever you're up to.

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Thanks for listening to the interview experts.

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Raoul, how are you?

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Welcome to the show.

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Hey Owen, I'm doing well.

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How are you?

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Great, great.

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Good to have you on.

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Raoul, could you tell me your story?

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Yeah, first of all, thanks for having me, Owen.

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Just to quickly introduce myself to your audience.

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My name is Raoul.

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I'm a sales manager at LinkedIn.

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I've been in my role for close to five years at the moment.

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And prior to that, I was managing several teams or different teams in Microsoft.

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So that's from a professional background, from personal background.

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I'm a husband.

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I'm a son of a refugee family.

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I lived in four different countries, China, Netherlands, UK, now in Ireland.

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And I hope to give your audience all the tips, the tricks, and share my experience as a hiring

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manager, but also potentially share my experience on the recruitment process from a job seeking

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perspective.

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Fantastic.

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And out of all those countries, Raoul, I presume Ireland is your favorite, right?

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Absolutely.

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And also I would have not stayed here for the last 10 years almost.

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Okay.

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Good answer.

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Thanks for sharing that, Raoul.

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No worries.

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No worries.

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Perfect.

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So, Raoul, what is the most memorable moment in your career so far?

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That's a good question.

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I think the most memorable moment in my career so far is I'm really happy that I took the

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risk when I graduated from my university and moved to China.

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I think I've learned a lot about myself on personal level, but also I've gained necessary

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experience.

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I graduated in 2008 and I think you can recall it wasn't the best time to be graduating with

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the crisis going on, et cetera.

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So I made at that time a very conscious decision and it was a little bit of risk as well.

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It's kind of like, you know, leave everything behind and, you know, like explore the world

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a little bit.

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And I didn't thought anything about like, you know, kind of like learning more about

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myself.

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I thought like it's a great experience and I'm just going to do that for six months in

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China.

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But the six months end up in three years and I'm very grateful because again, like, you

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know, I've learned so much about myself and I encourage everyone to at least, you know,

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travel or at least work in a different country for, you know, minimum six months of period.

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It's a great experience both from professional perspective, but what I really valued is the

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personal experience that I enhanced.

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I knew what drove me, you know, I knew my pitfalls.

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I knew my, you know, like my, in a way, you know, like the whole SWAT analysis, strengths,

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weaknesses, threats and opportunities.

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In my head, I've done that for myself at that time.

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So it really enabled me to understand myself much, much better.

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Yeah, it's, it's, yeah.

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I mean, I totally agree with you, right?

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I did a lot of traveling myself a lifetime ago now, but traveled to Australia where I

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met my wife in Melbourne, who is only from up the road from me.

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So it's small world.

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Worked there and worked with different cultures and I got so much out of that from a life

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experience perspective, both personally and professionally and lived in New Zealand as

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well and also did a stint in London for five years.

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And I got so much from that.

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And my advice actually to anyone sort of, you know, I suppose my advice to you back

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then would have been exactly what you did to travel the world and to work in different

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countries and get a sense of different cultures because you can use all those life skills

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in, both in your professional and your personal life in the future.

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So yeah, it was invaluable, the experience I had from it.

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So you did what I would have advised you to do.

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So, and I did it myself.

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I totally agree with you living in another country is you get so much from it.

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Thank you so much for sharing that.

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What are people quite surprised to find out about Euro?

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I think you nailed one thing that I actually would like to emphasize on is being able to

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adapt.

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Right.

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I think specifically looking at Dublin White, which I consider as a Silicon Valley of Europe,

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you have a lot of big multinationals established here, but also smaller multinationals.

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I think being able to being adaptable, first of all, being able to collaborate with different

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cultures.

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I think that's something that I've really experienced by working in different countries.

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And I think, you know, like I can basically get along with all the different cultures,

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perspectives, opinions, etc.

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And I think that's something that sometimes surprise people because, you know, being raised

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in a being raised in Netherlands, which is a little bit more of a direct culture to the

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point while working with Americans tend to be a little bit less direct in communication

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and working style that sometimes can clash.

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But I think that's something that, again, like I want to emphasize on the importance

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of traveling.

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I think that's something that I really experience and learn how to engage with different people,

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different cultures, different mindsets, different beliefs, etc.

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And also in the last year, I'm not perfect in that aspect, but in the last couple of

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years, I really also worked on that to improve that even better.

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And the whole idea of putting yourself in someone's shoes, you know, like having that

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empathy.

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I think, you know, like if you're conscious about that, you can really improve it.

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But yeah, so again, like not an expert in that, but really worked a lot on that aspect.

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And again, that's something that surprises people sometimes.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And I'm just kind of thinking back to my LinkedIn days.

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So for our listeners, myself and Raoul used to work together.

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We partnered, I recruited for Raoul's team and we used to travel to Amsterdam to do networking

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events.

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And actually, when I was recruiting for the Benelux market, Raoul, I needed to understand

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their culture a bit better, because, you know, like any other culture, like any culture,

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they are unique.

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And I learned a lot from that.

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So it was an invaluable experience learning about that culture and recruiting for your

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team.

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But yeah, it's, again, we're back to the sort of culture piece again, this seems to be a

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common thread that we're talking about to, you know, the more people you speak to, the

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more cultures you get to know.

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You can use that in later life.

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You can also use it in interview situations as well.

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So if you're interviewing someone from a particular culture, you know a bit more on what to expect

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versus another culture, right?

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So yeah, so yeah, it just also makes sense.

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So if we think about the future, and the future is all about AI automation, you know, like

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scaling your opportunities or challenges whatsoever.

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So there's one thing, you know, that I had this discussion with when I made a couple

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of days back, there's one thing that AI can't do, and that's the piece of collaboration,

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right?

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So it does the piece of working together people in general, right?

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And not even looking at the differences that we all have.

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And I think also the future of work, the future of employment, if you look at the, and this

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is according to my, you know, my view, I think the future of work will be really heavily

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tailored towards innovativity, right?

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So being an innovative person, but also be, I think is going to be much more focused on

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working together, you know, having that collaborative mindset and obviously, you know, working together

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with different people from different culture aspects, beliefs, etc.

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And that's again, something that AI, unfortunately, not yet yet, not yet is not able to perform.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, I mean, it makes such a good point there, like humans hire humans, right?

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And AI, yes, it will improve our, I think our operations piece.

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So and let us focus on maybe more important stuff.

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That's what I'm hoping that happens.

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But, you know, working together is so important.

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And I think if that's, if that's what you consider the future of work, Roel, I think

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it's important to get that across in interview as well, how you've collaborated with teams

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around you, with people above you, people below you.

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That's an important part of it as well.

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How do you want to be remembered?

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What do you want to be remembered for, Roel?

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Yeah, it's a good, very good question.

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I think I want to be remembered when it comes to my legacy, right?

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Again, I have two views, right?

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Personal and professional.

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But I tried to give you a answer that is in common.

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I want to be a better version of myself each day, right?

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And secondly, I want to have an impact on people's lives, right?

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And thirdly, from a professional perspective is I want to give people who don't necessarily

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have the right degree, the right experience, a fair chance to employment.

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Yeah, that's really interesting.

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I think you're touching on sort of diversity and inclusion there, right?

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So there's been a huge focus on this over the past few years on companies talking about

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how diverse and inclusive they are.

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Whether they actually do what they say, I don't know.

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There are really good companies out there that are very diverse and inclusive.

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And you're right, it's really important for everyone to have the opportunity no matter

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what background you're from.

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Do you think companies are being sort of diverse and inclusive these days or do you think there's

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a lot to work on from that perspective?

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Yeah, so again, this is my personal view, right?

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So again, this is fully my view.

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I think we can never do enough when it comes to diversity, inclusion or belonging in general.

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I think there's always room for improvement.

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However, I do have to say, looking from my professional background working in different

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companies, I see there's a huge focus on making an inclusive environment so everyone can at

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least be better first of themselves and also looking at creating a diversity in the teams

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from a rep level all the way to the leadership level.

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And it's funny that this discussion now because we're derailing a little bit from the initial

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conversation.

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That's okay, by the way.

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But I was reading actually today on Forbes.com, right?

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It was about the impact of diversity, inclusion and belonging on decision making process,

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right?

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And it was a graph that showed and still stays on my mind.

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And the graph was like the representation of gender only versus the representation of

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a diverse team, including the gender differences, the cultural differences and the ethnical

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differences and what it meant for decision making process, right?

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And that survey was done across 600 companies and they've kind of identified the leadership

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team and saw how is the decision making process looks like if there's only a male driven team

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versus a more balanced and diverse and safe.

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And obviously the results were astonishing to me because the decision making process,

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if you have a diverse team from a different culture background, different gender, right?

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And different views, et cetera, was increased with 80%.

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And I'll send you a link to that article as well.

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But I was surprised.

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I wasn't surprised by the fact that having a diverse representation in a team will increase

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the decision making process.

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But I wasn't.

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But I was surprised by the big impact of that, right?

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I didn't know that it would have increased 80% in the way.

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Yes, a huge increase.

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And actually for our listeners, I'll include that on this episode, that link that sounds

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really interesting that R.S.

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Billion-Forbes.

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Yeah, there still is that gender gap there when it comes to salaries.

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I think personally over my 13 years experience in recruitment, when it came down to offer

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stage, there was always a very small amount, a percentage of females that would negotiate

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their salary at the end of the process compared to their male counterparts.

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And that seems to be a common trend with a lot of my clients that I speak to, that when

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it comes down to negotiation, that they just accept the offer that they get.

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So when I'm working with a female client, that's something I really focus on that it's

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important to negotiate the right salary for you and to feel motivated by that salary so

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you stay in your role.

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So it's a really important part of the interview process.

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And there's always usually a bit of wiggle room to give you some sort of increase.

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But my advice to anyone interviewing is to negotiate and come to a common ground with

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whatever company offer you a role.

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It is expected to negotiate, but to negotiate in the right way to make sure that you're

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happy and the company is happy as well.

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Very good.

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So how can people find out about you and the work that you're doing at LinkedIn?

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So I'm active on LinkedIn myself, so feel free to add me on LinkedIn and follow.

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So furthermore, I try to do better for the community.

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So I think me and you, we organize a very good event for the refugees, helping them

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to establish an island and help them to build that community or be part of the community,

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of Irish community and stand financially also on their feet.

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I'm exploring that as well to how can I be better of support for the people that are

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in need of that support.

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So potentially looking at mentorship.

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And again, this is all in discussion, nothing is finalized, but I am consciously thinking

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of setting up something on a regular basis whereby I can, from my position and experience,

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I can help the people that would like that help.

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And again, if you're a job seeker, you want to have a chat one on one, feel free again

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to add me on LinkedIn.

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I'm more than happy to make some time and to give you tips and tricks that I know.

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Absolutely.

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And actually on the mentorship piece, I have a mentor myself, she's been with me since

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the start of my business.

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Shout out to Orly.

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But the mentorship program with the local enterprise office is invaluable.

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I've been assigned a mentor free of charge to open up my startup business.

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But it's great that you're offering that type of advice and being a mentor, I think, is

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great because it really does give back.

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And it brings, I think, when I ask someone about mentorship, it kind of brings you back

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to when you were like that, when you were a junior and you were looking for advice.

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So that's great.

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You're working on LinkedIn, Raoul, so I couldn't let the podcast end without asking you about

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the LinkedIn profile.

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What makes a good LinkedIn profile, do you think?

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Yeah, okay.

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That's a very good question because when I hire and I've actually interviewed hundreds

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of people, and I'll be honest, I rarely look at CVs.

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So my first view of this profile is and always will be LinkedIn profile.

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And if I see that that profile is not accurate or is missing data, and again, we all do that.

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It's called making assumption and bias and etc.

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I try to obviously stop the bias and then I look at CV.

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But again, if your LinkedIn profile is not updated, that shows a little bit of lack of

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professionalism from your side, specifically if you're applying to work at LinkedIn.

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So when it comes to having a proper profile on LinkedIn, see LinkedIn profile as your

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CV.

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So try to not make it too much of a detailed, right?

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Because obviously as a hiring manager or as a recruiter, you know yourself better than

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I do, we receive hundreds of, well, hundreds maybe is exaggeration, but receive a lot of

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application.

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And screening through all of them, from a human perspective, you tend to look at the

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most innovative one.

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You tend to screen it through.

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So making sure that you put the important information there and skip everything else,

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right?

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Because everything else can be done after your screening.

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So after you made a good profile picture, then you can share all the details in the

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interview process with the recruiter or the hiring manager.

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So it starts first with a quick summary, right?

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And I would also encourage to maybe put like one-liner about your passion, your hobbies,

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personal statement, because it shows again that human perspective behind the profile

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picture.

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Then we move to your experience, short to the point, your experience and the impact

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that you had.

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And I think that that will do.

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We should also not overly complicated this, right?

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But the key thing is, is not to make it too detailed because when I read it, I just scan

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it through and then I follow it up with the CV if needed or in the discussion from the

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hiring perspective.

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But again, there's a template that I always use as well.

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So I can share it to you, Owen, and then you can share it with the audience or alternatively,

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you know, like just send me a connection request and I'm more than happy to share the LinkedIn

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template.

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And it basically tells you from step to step what you need to be doing to have a great

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LinkedIn profile.

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Brilliant.

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Absolutely.

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That'd be brilliant.

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And I know it's important as well that, you know, you have the right terminology written

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on your LinkedIn profile so that you're visible to recruiters because what recruiters will

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do is they've access to LinkedIn recruiter and they'll put in the skills that they're

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looking for for that specific job spec.

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And if you don't have those skills on your LinkedIn profile, then you're not going to

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come up in their search and they're not going to reach out to you, right?

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So it's important to have that terminology.

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So it's a good exercise to go through maybe job specs that you're looking at and you're

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interested in the companies that you're interested in and looking at the keywords and that jobs

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back and making sure that on your LinkedIn profile, so you come up with those searches.

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One last question I'm going to ask you Raul is what is your top tip for anyone looking

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for a job right now?

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Let me think for a sec.

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I think be human.

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That would be my top tip.

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And I have a story to share, you know, like, because when you asked me that question, the

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first thing in my mind came that story, right?

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And that's the power of storytelling.

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So when I was a manager, I had one candidate that applied, he was from a Middle Eastern

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country, but he applied for French speaking role, but he was also a French speaker as

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well.

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And when I asked him, from a professional perspective, he had all the majority of the

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needed requirements were in check, not all of them, right?

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But what really impressed me the most and where he differentiated himself from the other

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peers that also showed interest in the position is the human aspect behind the one hour conversation

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interview that you have or the human aspect behind the CV or a LinkedIn profile.

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He shared the story with me about his passion and I was hiring at that time for a IT role,

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right?

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Even though I've always worked in sales, I was helping out another manager.

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So he shared his experience about what drives him to apply for this role, you know, his

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passion about IT.

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So he came from an unfortunate background, he wasn't really well off when it comes to

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financial perspective, right?

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So all the money he made, he used to travel to an internet cafe because they could not

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afford a PC at home.

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And he spent all his money that he made working part time to learn more about coding in general,

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right?

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And he gave me a lot of details the way like how long he used to travel, you know, he used

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to travel for a freaking one and a half hour just to go to an internet cafe to have a capable

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PC with connection to learn more about coding and all that other stuff that IT people do

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in general, right?

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That really impressed me a lot because I was thinking, you know, if you're so passionate

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about a certain topic that you're willing to use your own financial money or terms or

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benefits, whatever you want to call it.

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And then also, you know, like your own time by traveling to learn about something, right?

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Not even knowing that you will get a job, yes or no.

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I think that was a great example of showing the passionate and showing the passion about

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this certain topic, but also the human aspect that he really showcased in the interview.

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So again, emphasizing on making it also humane, not try to in interview.

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And I know it's tough because it's only one hour, one hour, maybe max two hours.

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And you really want to, you know, you really want to focus on your accomplishment like

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everyone else.

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Sometimes we tend to forget also to showcase us as humans to other people.

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Human hire human, right?

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But whenever I do the interviews, right?

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I always reserve.

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I do interviews in one and a half hour, 30 minutes of my interviews, right?

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It's tell me about yourself.

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And then people come with slides, presentations, you know, and then they share their hobbies.

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And then for me, it's very easy also then, you know, like before we go to the next stage

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of interview to already have a good understanding from a human to human perspective, who am

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I talking to at the moment, right?

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So I think that would be my top tip, you know, make it humane.

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Absolutely.

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And you touched on storytelling there as well.

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And actually, you know, this is also relevant for presentations as well.

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We tell a story to an audience.

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They're going to be much more engaged with you than if you just go through your experience

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in educational qualifications.

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Everyone does that, right?

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And in an interview situation, if you can actually tell your story like your candidate

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did and, you know, clearly was successful then from doing that, that makes so much more

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of an impact in general and interviews and presentations.

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And when you're speaking to someone, actually telling your story is a lot more engaging.

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So great tip.

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I got the feedback as well, Owen, right?

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And that's a long, long time ago.

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But I want to interview you and it was very general, right?

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And from experience was that, you know, like the recruit called me with feedback and you're

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like experience wise, you nailed it, you had the right experience, but we felt that you

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didn't really showcase yourself in during the interview process.

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And I was like, tell me more, right?

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And they were like, well, you know, and that I mentioned to me that it felt that it was

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all autopilot in a way, right?

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My answers.

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That was a big learning for me.

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Okay, interesting.

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How can I do it better?

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Right?

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How can I showcase my unique me in the interview process?

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And again, it's tough, you know, because you want to, you know, focus on your experience

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and numbers, at least if you're in sales environment and, you know, how great you are, etc.

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And, you know, things you can do better, blah, blah.

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However, like always be mindful of the hiring managers.

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We hire people, you know, we don't hire CVs or profile.

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So emphasize on that as well.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And, you know, you're going to be working with this person, you know, potentially 35,

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40 years a week as well.

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You know, you want to know who that person is rather than them just sort of telling you

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about their qualifications and why they're good for the job.

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Absolutely.

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Really, really good advice, Raoul.

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Raoul, thank you so much for joining.

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It's been eye opening and the tips have been brilliant.

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All the best at everything.

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And yeah, thanks for coming on the show.

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Yeah, you're welcome.

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Thanks for inviting me on.

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Appreciate it.

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Thank you for listening to the Interview Expert.

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Make sure to check out our website, yourhire.ie, where you can subscribe to the show and also

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00:27:58,860 --> 00:28:01,800
find out more interview tips and tricks.

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00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,600
While you're at it, if you found value in this show, we'd appreciate a rating wherever

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00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:06,600
you get your podcasts.

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00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:10,320
Or if you simply tell a friend about the show, that would help us out too.

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Owen Murray is available for private coaching.

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See our website for details at yourhire.ie.

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Until next time, do good, feel good and be good.