The Power Of Networking with Claire Carroll - Executive & Career Coach (ex Google)

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Hey everyone, welcome to the Interview Expert Podcast.

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I'm your host, Owen Murray, an interview coach, podcaster and recruitment manager.

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Thanks to each and every one of you who come back to listen, learn and grow.

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This podcast is where hiring managers from diverse backgrounds share their insights to

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support you on your interview journey.

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Join us as we explore tips, strategies and real-world experiences to help you ace your

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next interview and land your dream job.

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Welcome to today's episode, The Power of Networking.

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I'm excited to have a special guest with me today, Claire Carroll, the founder of Claire

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Carroll Coaching.

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Claire is an executive and career coach dedicated to guiding mid-career professionals through

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transitions with confidence and clarity.

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Get ready to gain valuable insights into how powerful networking can be and how that one

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person you meet could shape your whole career journey.

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So let's dive in.

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But before we get into it, I have one favour to ask you.

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The majority of people who watch and listen to this podcast have yet to hit the follow

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or subscribe button.

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I can't tell you how important this is.

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If you hit that follow or subscribe button, I will get more guests that you want to see.

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And thank you for lending me your ears whether you're walking, running, at the gym, walking

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the dog, cooking, whatever you're up to.

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Thanks for listening to the interview expert.

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Claire, how are you?

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Welcome to the show.

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Thanks, Owen.

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Great to be here.

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Great to have you on.

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Claire, for our listeners, can you tell me a bit about your story?

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Wow.

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Big question.

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I'm 43, Owen.

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How much time do we have?

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I'm 43 myself, Claire, so I understand.

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I realised this week, it's like I'm 43.

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I'm literally the definition of middle aged.

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And sorry for any listeners who are similar age to me, but if I hit 86 and I'm healthy

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and hearty, I'd be delighted with myself.

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It's only a number.

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Let me see.

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My story.

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So I am currently working as an executive coach.

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I do individual coaching, group coaching, some training as well.

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And I deliver stuff for various people.

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Prior to that, well, I took a career break of six or seven months.

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I had worked in Google for 10 years.

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Before that, I'd worked in ad agencies in Ireland and in New Zealand.

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Funny enough, I was just telling the client this morning, I got my first proper job in

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a pub.

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So my degree is actually in psychology.

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And I'm sure much to my parents' disappointment, though they never shared it with me at the

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time.

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I then started working on reception and doing its secretarial work and stuff in Dublin and

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various different companies.

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And I ended up on the reception desk of the Sunday Tribune newspaper.

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Do you remember that?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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I remember the Tribune.

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Yeah.

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Nice broads Sunday broadsheet.

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Matt Cooper was the editor at the time of Today FM.

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But anyway, anyway, it was in the pub on a Friday, toners of Bagot Street and someone

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got fired from the advertising sales department and the not so sober manager came over.

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I heard you want to work in advertising.

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Do you want to start?

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We've got a role, come in on Monday.

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So innocent, conservative Claire at the time, age 23, was like, what the hell has gone on

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here?

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I phoned my dad, he said, go in there Monday morning with your health, health high, tell

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that man he offered you a job, take the job and do a bloody good job of it.

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So I was like, great.

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So I did.

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And that happened because I'd actually was meant to start an advertising diploma full

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time, like during the day.

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But I managed to switch that to an evening course and I was working, which I really wanted

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to do.

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I really wanted to just get into the workforce.

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I had had enough of college.

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Yeah.

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So jobs can come from anywhere.

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Amazing.

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Yes.

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I think you're talking about the power of networking there.

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Even if you're in Toners on a Friday or Saturday night, you never know who you'll meet and

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what it could lead to as well.

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Yeah, you're right, because I had told some of my colleagues what I actually wanted to

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do.

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They're like, what are you doing working on reception kind of thing?

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So telling people what you want seems so obvious, but is an amazing tool to getting what you

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want.

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Absolutely.

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Yeah.

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And Claire, so this is kind of closely linked to this question, closely linked to what you

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just mentioned there.

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How did your early life experiences shape your career choices?

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Wow.

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Great question.

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So let me see.

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I kind of, I always wanted to help people as cheesy and unoriginal as that sounds.

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It's really true.

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I chose psychology as a degree because I was much more quiet when I was younger than I

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am now.

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And I was just really more, I guess, observing and more kind of on the edges of groups and

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things and watching people interacting and just soaking it all in.

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And I was fascinated by human behavior and groups and how people kind of established

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the alphas and the betas and the flicks and school and the ins and outs of it all.

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And I had some relations who were psychologists.

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I did my work experience with them for a couple of weeks and decided that I'd go for it.

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Then realized that I wanted to get into the workforce rather than do the masters and the

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PhD and the unpaid or low paid tough work that goes with that route.

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And advertising and marketing and HR and PR were kind of the other buckets of what psychology

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graduates can do.

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But I must say after that, that Tribune job, Sunday Tribune job was tough.

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It was flipping through the golden pages and trying to sell classified ads to the unsuspecting

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cold callers that I was ringing.

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And it was a grind and it was not intellectually stimulating.

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But it was great crack working in a newspaper environment.

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And I had some lovely colleagues and some tough colleagues in that world.

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And again, actually through the power of networking, one of my colleagues used to work in an ad

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agency.

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And the managing director of that ad agency was my lecturer in the evening course in advertising

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and marketing that I was doing.

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And receptionist job opened up.

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My colleague in the Tribune is like, you know, go and give Paul a ring, like tell him, tell

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him you want to get into advertising.

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I was like, oh, go back to reception seriously.

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So I remember the job, it was a thousand, God, we were pounds a euro at the time, we

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were euro, a thousand pounds less and going backwards.

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And I was like, no, it's what I want.

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I'm going to do it.

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Within three weeks of that job, someone else left and everyone got a bump up.

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So I was a TV buyer, a media buyer working on that big account in the company, which

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is McDonald's restaurants at the time.

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And I stayed in that company for seven years and it was wonderful.

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It was 12 to 14 people in a bigger company of maybe 20 or 30 and the rest of the creative

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side of the house, we were media.

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Media buying roles at the time were great for a person in their 20s who likes going

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out.

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So I remember for the first seven Fridays in a row, I was in some lovely restaurant

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in Dublin being wined and dined by the media owners, the newspapers, the TV stations, the

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radio stations, how it worked, maybe still how it works, I don't know how it worked at

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the time.

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I was out every Thursday night with my work colleagues at Brian's of Leeson Street.

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I spent half my wages in there and it was great.

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I learned a lot on the job.

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I had some lovely clients, I had some great colleagues.

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I think there's seven or eight marriages came out of the time that I spent in that company.

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They just hired so well.

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And my boss at the time is just someone that I respected and admired and got on so well.

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He's so human, he's so down to earth.

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He knew like everyone just wanted to work really hard and do the best that they could

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do for him.

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And I think, again, learning through observing how he managed people, how he conducted himself

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at work, how he managed clients, how he dealt with mistakes or failures and just took the

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learnings out of them and try it again.

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I think before I ever read any management book or people leadership book, I had just

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such an amazing grounding in how it's people first.

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You know, what's the phrase?

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Culture eats strategy for breakfast or whatever that bloody awful phrase is.

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Like, you need to hire the people with the right skills and the right attitude.

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You need to create a working environment where people want to do their best.

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And if you make a mistake, fine, just don't make it again, you know, and learn from it.

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And it was just so human and pragmatic and down to earth.

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We had a nice ambition.

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And I think, yeah, I think that's like that was such an amazing grinding in my early career

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to be so long in that company.

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And actually, I went off after a year traveling backpacking around the world.

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And then I had a choice of roles when I came back and I chose to go back to that company.

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That's really interesting.

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And, you know, I think to our listeners out there as well, when you find a company like

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that, it's the kind of hold on with two hands to it.

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It's a while ago now, it's a clear, but can you think back to the interview process there?

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And did you were you able to manage to see what this company was like before you got

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into it?

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Or was it more sort of took a punt on it and then you realized how good the company was.

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But was there any ways that you were able to find that out in the interview process?

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Yeah, well, I think one I had like the colleague I was working with in the Sunday Tribune raved

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about this company and the people and the management.

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I knew it was what I wanted.

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It was a media job with kind of more numbers based, not the creative side of advertising,

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which was my strength strategy and stuff.

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And then I had the luck to be kind of exposed to my future boss because he was lecturing

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me in the course so I could see that he was very competent and he seemed sound.

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Now, I remember wondering if the lecturer personality would translate into, you know,

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eight hours a day in an office.

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And it did, but I felt I had the recommendation from someone that I liked and trusted that

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I worked with and I had already exposure to one of the main people.

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I remember, you know, that thing like sitting in.

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So when interviews were in person at the time, which usually they're not these days, when

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I remember sitting in reception and people kind of coming in and out were like friendly

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saying hello and chatting to the receptionist and they just felt like a good culture.

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It felt like a good sized company for me.

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And I think at the time I was desperate to change jobs because I could not spend more

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days flipping through the golden pages and cold calling people.

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It was, you know, not what I was put on this planet to do.

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There was a time limit on that work for me.

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But yeah, I think like trying to associate the culture of a place is important, but it's

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the hardest thing to do.

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Yeah.

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And then what you did there was it was excellent, like getting the recommendation from someone

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who, you know, knows the business and works in the business and can tell you probably

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more about the business than you would ever find out in the interview process.

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Right.

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So an honest opinion, a warts and all opinion.

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Absolutely.

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Absolutely.

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You need to know about the warts as well, I suppose, if you want to phrase it like that.

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Well, yeah.

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And that will help you make a more informed decision at the end of the process.

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Right.

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So yeah, it's something I always say to my clients that if you know someone in there,

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you know, why not set up a casual coffee with them and you'll get more from that coffee

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than you'll probably get from any interview that you do with them.

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But yeah, I agree.

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And I think later in life then, so I went through a redundancy situation then much later

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in my career.

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And at the time, I remember getting great advice again from a colleague who was so lovely

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to me, quite a senior person.

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She gave me a good bit of her time and she had been through this before, which I couldn't

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believe twice actually, just when teams had been disbanded and relocated and all the rest.

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She had four questions that she asked when she was networking and trying to find out

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information about teams or orgs or companies.

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And to the person you're having the casual coffee with, it's what's your favourite part

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of the job?

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What's your least favourite part of the job?

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If you were to hire a colleague, what are you looking for in that colleague?

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And is there anyone else you could put me in touch with that you think would be useful

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to me?

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And there I've stolen that advice with pride and pass it on to many of my clients because

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they're easy enough questions that people can answer.

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They don't feel that they need to dig into some sort of, you know, philosophy on careers

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or leadership or whatever.

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They're open enough that people can give the level of detail they're comfortable with and

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they're human.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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I love that.

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I love those questions.

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Even at the...

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And what I actually say is, who can you put me in contact with?

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So I'd be positive as some tough, you know, to link me to the next person.

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You mentioned redundancy there, Claire, like you talked to someone who has been made redundant

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three times in their career.

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How did redundancy make you feel?

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Oh, not the time.

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Terrible.

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Like it was...

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Let me see.

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It was before...

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I was working in tech.

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It was before the tech waves that came subsequently.

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HR meeting landed in my calendar.

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Didn't know what it was about.

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I thought it was a problem with the team.

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Redundancies weren't on the radar.

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And then the kind of, you know, company spiel, it's not personal, it's business, it's a restructure

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and nothing to do with performance and all the rest, which was true, but like, it doesn't

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help in the moment.

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I remember just focusing on trying not to cry in the meeting and listening.

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I didn't ask a lot of questions and then got off the call and cancelled my meetings for

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the rest of the day and bawled my eyes out.

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I felt it.

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Like it felt personal.

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I felt singled out and all the rest.

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There was a big emotional roller coaster that I went through.

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I had a huge upheaval in my personal life a year previous as well.

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Broken relationship to very young kids.

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Was still COVID.

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So it was tough.

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I was like, you know, Jesus, the universe, what else are you going to throw at me?

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However, I've been in the company for 10 years.

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It was a generous redundancy check, which a lot of people, depending on the company,

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would get the opportunity to do.

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And I have a load of friends who are psychologists, which are a very useful bunch of very close,

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long time, got friends for 25 years now.

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Very good in a crisis.

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And I remember one good friend saying, what you really need in your life right now is

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time and space and you're getting a nice check to fund that.

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So what's the actual problem here?

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You know, and she was so right.

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I just couldn't see it.

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And then I think when I discovered talking through contacts or colleagues or connections

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who had been through this before, you're like, oh, this is a thing that happens.

283
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People like in a career that's going to span 40, 45 years, maybe longer.

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You know, really crap things happen.

285
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I had plenty of skills.

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I have plenty of strengths.

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I have a great network.

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Very capable.

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All those things.

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But I didn't feel it at the time.

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I was just so exhausted from personal life and from working in a high paced environment

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and sales and tech for a long time.

293
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So I was very fortunate to be able to take a good bit of time out.

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I took six or seven months off.

295
00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:28,760
Sorry, I did a mat leave contract.

296
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I took some time off and I was over the summer.

297
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I did personal training for the first time that I'd never done.

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I bought a new bike, I'm into cycling, got a nice new bike headed for the hills and found

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a cycling gang to hang out with.

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I watched daytime telly and did nothing like went from a person who loved achieving and

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doing and getting through to do list and looking for the next promotion and the next opportunity

302
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:04,760
and the next project to just really trying to not achieve things during the day.

303
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Like I didn't even get around to doing the gardener, clearing out the cupboards and focus

304
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:15,480
on the kids playing with them and myself on sleeping, trying to eat a bit better on resting.

305
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Like in the Western world, we just don't value rest, proper rest.

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The way that they do on other continents.

307
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We're always just so busy and trying to do.

308
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Met up with friends for coffee.

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I had quite a few friends who were like on mat leave or paternity leave or working shorter

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weeks or not working over the summer.

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Took a few trips to lovely places in Ireland and yeah, just recovered from what life had

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thrown at me.

313
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Then got itchy feet and needed intellectual simulation, which I knew that I would for

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my maternity leaves.

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I knew that the old brain needed a bit of fuel and I'd actually done a coaching course,

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00:17:57,120 --> 00:17:58,120
which I was always interested in.

317
00:17:58,120 --> 00:18:04,360
So coaching for me was that really good blend of interest in people, what makes them tick,

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what motivates them, what makes them happy and the psychology behind that, the emotional

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intelligence and awareness on how we make decisions and all that with having loved managing

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people.

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Like I was fine at sales, but I really loved managing people.

322
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Sometimes I was a great manager.

323
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Sometimes I was not a good fit for people that happen.

324
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I mean, I've managed 100 or 150 people that happens.

325
00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:32,560
But coaching was a really good blend of that business part and the kind of psychology people

326
00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:33,560
part.

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00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:37,680
And look, as you know yourself, it's nerve wracking going into business for yourself.

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00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:41,440
But I was like, no, back yourself, Claire, give it six months, try and put the things

329
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:46,400
in place, the things that you can control, do those.

330
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:50,400
And the way goals work for me is I set something that I know I can achieve.

331
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:52,520
And then I set a stretch and another stretch.

332
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Some people like shooting for the sun, moon and stars.

333
00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:57,200
I prefer to build.

334
00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:58,560
That works for me.

335
00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:02,480
So yeah, here we are like a year and a bit later.

336
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:03,840
Amazing.

337
00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:05,080
Thank you for sharing that.

338
00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:13,160
And yeah, look, I empathize with you about the being made redundant piece.

339
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:17,040
I was made redundant from a tech firm as well.

340
00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:19,160
Second lockdown, second baby just died.

341
00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:23,640
Probably the last thing I needed was to be made redundant.

342
00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:27,960
And actually when it happens, I think you take it a bit personally, and it's hard not

343
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:32,120
to take it personally, that you didn't do a good enough job.

344
00:19:32,120 --> 00:19:34,240
And that's why you were singled out as being made redundant.

345
00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:40,600
And that is not the case, especially for these company-wide redundancies.

346
00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:42,280
They're happening more and more these days.

347
00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:44,520
So I think what you did there was amazing.

348
00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:45,960
You took time for yourself.

349
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You spent time with your kids.

350
00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,360
You took up cycling.

351
00:19:50,360 --> 00:19:56,480
That's not an easy thing to do after such a horrible thing happening in your professional

352
00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:57,480
life.

353
00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:02,880
But it's about remembering that, as you said, to back yourself.

354
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:07,000
And that's actually, it's funny you say that because that is something I always say to

355
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,400
my clients before they go into an interview.

356
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,800
Back yourself and go in and you'll do a good job.

357
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:18,040
And if you back yourself and do your best, that's all you can do.

358
00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,200
So yeah, I love that expression.

359
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:26,640
I just, when you said it there, I was like, no way, that's something I really can relate

360
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:27,640
to.

361
00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:31,440
I keep having to say that to myself sometimes as well.

362
00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,280
And you're obviously similar to me, Claire.

363
00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:39,560
You've got your own business and you have to back yourself.

364
00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:43,920
And when you have those bad days, that's when you have to back yourself even more.

365
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:44,920
Right.

366
00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:45,920
Yeah, totally.

367
00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:49,960
Because it's all whether you're working for yourself or working for a company.

368
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:51,480
We always have bad days.

369
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:53,680
You know, it's to be accepted.

370
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:57,400
I think another thing that was beneficial was it was a good, it was actually a good

371
00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:03,200
time in career phase and life phase for me to stop and reflect and think about what was

372
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,080
really important for me.

373
00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:06,960
And again, I've been privileged.

374
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:10,040
I'm from a lovely middle class background, I'm college educated.

375
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:15,600
You know, I've worked, gone to small companies and big companies and I've worked hard and

376
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:21,440
I'd earned enough to be able to buy a house and kind of set a good foundation.

377
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:27,440
So that time to reflect allowed me think time right now in these next few years is more

378
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,280
important to me than finances.

379
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:35,400
Because I know I did actually doing a financial plan, a proper household budget and like rejigging

380
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:39,160
the bills and seeing what you can cut out and what you can afford and being a bit more

381
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:44,920
frugal and sensible really helped ease the anxiety that I had around not earning and

382
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:51,000
not providing for my family because I've always been the breadwinner.

383
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,560
And really being very intentional, which I still have to do to myself and saying what

384
00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:57,680
my kids need right now is more time with me.

385
00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:58,680
Okay.

386
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:04,500
And not my, you know, or my parents and my brother needs is more time for me, not more

387
00:22:04,500 --> 00:22:08,080
money to buy the more branded stuff or more toys.

388
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:13,440
And you know, and it's again, it's obvious to say, but I find it hard to do because you're

389
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:17,040
living in an environment where lots of the kids around here have lots of stuff.

390
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:21,000
But you know, I want to be jumping in the trampoline with them, not taking the call

391
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:26,960
to the States for the blah, blah catch up meeting for the yada yada, whatever, you know,

392
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:32,240
and it's, it's that's more important or going off and taking time for myself, which

393
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:36,800
is thing that parents of young kids and mothers in particular really struggle to carve out

394
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:41,400
time for themselves for hobbies and things, you know, so.

395
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:42,400
Absolutely.

396
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:44,640
Like working for yourself has a lot of benefits, right?

397
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,880
And I find that myself that I get to spend more time with kids.

398
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:53,640
And it's just so important at this time in life to be able to do that.

399
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:58,800
For the audience, I have three and a five year old and I think here's our similar age,

400
00:22:58,800 --> 00:22:59,800
Claire.

401
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:00,800
Yeah, six and four.

402
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:05,640
Yeah, so, you know, it's a really important time in life to be involved and be there and

403
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:07,440
be present for your kids.

404
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:08,440
Right.

405
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:09,440
So yeah, really.

406
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,160
And look, you touched on it there as well.

407
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,400
Like it's so important to take care of your mental health.

408
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,320
Like there is something called burnout that can happen.

409
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:22,800
And I have seen it happen in some of the tech firms I've worked for.

410
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,800
Some employees actually reaching burnout and having to take, you know, an extended time

411
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,600
of leave because they've hit this wall.

412
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:33,480
They were overworking and they weren't taking care of their mental health and they weren't

413
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:37,200
balancing work with their personal lives.

414
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,880
So it's an actual thing.

415
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,520
And you know, it's actually good to be aware of it.

416
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:48,720
I did a training session on it before, you know, understanding burnout and understanding

417
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:52,080
the signs of seeing it as well.

418
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:59,280
So as a leader in my previous roles, you know, I went through training to see, to understand

419
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:04,880
if I actually saw signs in an employee or even in myself.

420
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,720
So really, really important.

421
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:13,800
Are there any specific daily habits or routines that you will, you know, that contribute,

422
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,320
I suppose, to your productivity, Claire?

423
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:21,360
Sorry, I'm smiling because I just posted this week about one of my favourite books.

424
00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:24,440
Atomic Habits by James Clear.

425
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,440
So I don't have shares in this company.

426
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:31,360
I'm going to display it to you here.

427
00:24:31,360 --> 00:24:33,160
I like it.

428
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:37,480
I like things that are pragmatic and real.

429
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:41,920
Someone who used to work with me recommended this to me or recommended one of the concepts

430
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:46,040
to me a few years back, which is it's a thing called habit stacking.

431
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:50,760
So what's the thing that you do every day that you can stack the new habits that you

432
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:52,240
want to instill on top of?

433
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,480
So for example, I was saying, God, it's so hard to find the time to exercise and all

434
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:56,600
the rest.

435
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,680
So I figured right once I dropped the kids to wherever they're going.

436
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:04,880
Now what I do is I've got the tracksuit on me, do the crash and scoot run, dump the scooters

437
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,480
in the front garden and keep going on a run.

438
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,960
So I open that front door and see those breakfast dishes and the clothes on the floor and the

439
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,320
washing machine half done and whatever, whatever.

440
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:15,320
I end up doing housework.

441
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:19,960
I'd much rather go for a run or a walk or a coffee or bump into a neighbour and have

442
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,840
a chat because I work from home in my spare room and go mad.

443
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:25,600
Online meetings all the time.

444
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,680
That's much better for me than doing housework.

445
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:32,640
So habit stacking, I find is good.

446
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:42,640
So in work, I find after I do a coaching session with a private client, I do a reflection.

447
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:46,560
And sometimes I can struggle to sit down and do that because I've been listening intently

448
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:51,880
for up to an hour and a half at times.

449
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:55,760
But I know if I don't do it there and then, I'll struggle to do it later.

450
00:25:55,760 --> 00:26:01,800
So what really works for me is for any that or anything else is putting time in the calendar.

451
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:03,640
So I book in a session for a client.

452
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:09,400
I've got time before to do my preparation and I've got time after to do my reflection.

453
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:15,240
That also helps me price my coaching services accordingly, because the client isn't paying

454
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,240
for the hour and a half.

455
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,300
My time is the time before and the time after.

456
00:26:20,300 --> 00:26:26,800
So when I'm a little afraid to ask for what is a reasonable price, then I remind myself

457
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,560
of the time that I'm putting in and I can physically see it in my calendar.

458
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,440
And I actually use color codes on my calendar as well.

459
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:36,280
So client coaching sessions are a certain color.

460
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:37,880
Marketing stuff is another color.

461
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,040
Doing my accounts or whatever is another color.

462
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,360
So I can see how at a glance how I'm managing my time.

463
00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:50,080
I say discovery calls, so meeting prospective new clients or things that I do for prospective

464
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:51,280
new clients is another color.

465
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:55,760
So again, I can see at a glance over a month, am I spending enough time working in the business

466
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:57,400
and working on the business?

467
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:58,400
What else?

468
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:06,440
What James Clear talks about in that book as well is around identifying as a person

469
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:07,440
who does something.

470
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,920
So rather than say to yourself, I want to be fit.

471
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:15,040
Or say, sorry, let's do a work example.

472
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,600
Let's say you work in marketing and you want to go into sales.

473
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,040
Rather than saying to yourself, I want to work in sales.

474
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,640
You say to yourself, I want to be a salesperson.

475
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:29,520
So that makes your brain consciously and unconsciously start thinking about what are the things that

476
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,040
a salesperson does.

477
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:39,800
So a salesperson listens, talks to the customer's language, understands the benefit of the product

478
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:44,720
or service that they're selling from the customer's point of view, and talks about that rather

479
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:49,400
than the technical details and so on and so forth.

480
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:55,720
So once you start identifying as the person that you want to be, you can start creating

481
00:27:55,720 --> 00:28:00,480
the habits and the actions and the thinking patterns that are associated with that more

482
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:06,200
easily because it starts becoming a part of your identity.

483
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:10,720
That's pretty powerful.

484
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,640
I know exactly what you mean.

485
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:20,800
Claire, what is, have you any sort of interview tips for anyone out there currently looking

486
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,800
for work?

487
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:31,960
Yes, I would say depending on what stage you are at in your career, certainly if you're

488
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:39,080
mid career or later, you're interviewing them as much as they're interviewing you.

489
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:45,680
Even if the pressure is really on to find a role and finances are getting scary, it's

490
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:50,800
very difficult being in a job that you really don't enjoy or that don't match your skill

491
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:51,800
set.

492
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:55,040
There's a lot of pressure, a lot of anxiety, a lot of sleepless nights that comes with

493
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:56,040
that.

494
00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:01,600
So trying to avoid that situation at all possible is a good thing.

495
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:03,680
Trust your intuition, I'd say.

496
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:09,000
Trust those spidey senses, particularly if you're being interviewed or on the panel as

497
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,040
a person you're going to be working with directly.

498
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:16,200
What's your ghost telling you about that person, that rapport, that natural chemistry between

499
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:21,120
two humans, whether it's online or whether it's in person?

500
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:24,280
Watch out for those red flags for the things that you don't want.

501
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:28,960
You probably want this to be their job, but do watch out for those red flags.

502
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:33,760
If it didn't quite like they weren't really listening to me or this felt like a formality

503
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:40,840
or sometimes a client of mine recently was saying, oh, they told me that it was quite

504
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,400
a lean operation and they kept using the word lean, lean, lean.

505
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:49,000
This client had come from a redundancy situation and they are saying, I'm very sure that lean

506
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:54,960
means jobs are stretched very broadly and very thinly and they're under resourced and

507
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:59,320
anyone coming in is expected not only to hit the ground running, but to pick up loads of

508
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,200
stuff outside of their job description.

509
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:08,800
Yes, of course, we do stuff outside of our job description, but having your antenna up

510
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:16,200
for under resourced teams is an important thing.

511
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:23,640
I certainly ramble or I'm prone to ramble.

512
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,560
Having succinct examples of the things that you want to show, like the great projects

513
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:33,360
that you've done or the collaboration or the tell me about a time when you failed type

514
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:37,400
of questions, the examples that you're going to give to those, like write them out.

515
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:41,280
There's various frameworks, there's the STAR method, there's the SOAR method.

516
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:45,520
I really encourage people to write out seven or eight or nine examples of the different

517
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:52,000
things and then slot them into appropriate interview questions, but practice it out loud.

518
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,800
Stand in front of the mirror and say the words out loud because the words that you write

519
00:30:55,800 --> 00:31:01,120
down are often a bit too highfalutin and you wouldn't actually say it in the course of

520
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:07,280
a normal conversation and articulating things out loud and boasting about your own achievements

521
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:08,920
can feel unnatural to some people.

522
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:13,320
So practicing out loud, even though it's awful, even though it's uncomfortable, do it.

523
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:17,760
There's lots of AI tools out there as well that you can talk to and they'll give you

524
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:18,760
real time feedback.

525
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:24,280
The ums and the ahs and the filler words, how to cut them out, or they might even suggest

526
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:31,800
how you can turn 10 sentences into four more succinct ones and pull out the relevant details.

527
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:36,400
But yeah, talk an out loud to yourself.

528
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:37,400
Do it.

529
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,040
Yeah, I think I do that myself.

530
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,520
Even before interviews, I record myself and watch myself back and even though it can be

531
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:47,160
a bit uncomfortable listening to your own voice and watching yourself, you have to get

532
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:52,920
and get to a comfortable space where you feel comfortable boasting about yourself and talking

533
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:54,920
about yourself, right?

534
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,680
And that question in an interview that everyone usually gets, you know, tell me a bit about

535
00:31:58,680 --> 00:31:59,680
yourself.

536
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:07,360
You need to practice that and be able to give a good rendition of your experience.

537
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,800
And as you said, practice makes perfect.

538
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:11,840
The more you practice it, the better you get at it.

539
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:17,520
The more interviews you do, the better you get at it until you find your dream job.

540
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,880
So and the AI tools as well, they're becoming more common.

541
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:27,360
And you mentioned there to take out the us and the ahs and everything and get more information

542
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,640
across to your interviewer in such a small amount of time, really.

543
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:35,720
It's actually not that long a time to explain all your experience.

544
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:37,920
I was going to say a final thing, final thought.

545
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:42,600
There's a cruel irony that the skills that you need to do a great interview may not be

546
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:46,560
the skills at all that you need to do a great job in that role.

547
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:51,000
It can be two very different things, particularly if you're engineering or manufacturing or

548
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:52,540
something like that.

549
00:32:52,540 --> 00:32:59,280
So even if you're brilliant at your job, you may need to pick up the skill of doing interviews.

550
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,540
And anyone who's been hiring folks has been in that position where someone does a great

551
00:33:02,540 --> 00:33:06,680
interview and then within an hour on the job sitting at the desk beside you, you're like,

552
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:08,600
oh, not a good fit.

553
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:09,600
Yeah, absolutely.

554
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,840
I mean, yeah, that's going to happen as well.

555
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:17,720
But I think that's about being your authentic self in interviews, isn't it?

556
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:21,960
But if you are your authentic self, you know, you'll get into a job and a culture and a

557
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,420
business that you fit into.

558
00:33:24,420 --> 00:33:28,960
If you're not, then you'll realize six months in that this is not the role for you and you

559
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,260
weren't being your authentic self in interviews.

560
00:33:31,260 --> 00:33:33,560
So yeah, that's that's really, really important.

561
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:40,080
But Claire, thank you so much for all that insight and, you know, giving us some background

562
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,080
about you and what you do.

563
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,040
Where can we find you, Claire, if anyone's looking for you?

564
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:46,040
Yeah, sure.

565
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:47,040
Thank you.

566
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:48,040
You can either find me on LinkedIn.

567
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:52,440
I'm linked to you or you can find me at clarecarrol-coaching.com.

568
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,440
Fantastic.

569
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:55,920
Thanks so much, Claire, for being on the show.

570
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:56,920
Really appreciate it.

571
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:57,920
No, it was great.

572
00:33:57,920 --> 00:33:58,920
Time flew.

573
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:00,680
Thanks very much, Joan.

574
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,320
Thank you for listening to the interview expert.

575
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:08,880
Make sure to check out our website, yourhire.ie, where you can subscribe to the show and also

576
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,160
find out more interview tips and tricks.

577
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:15,600
While you're at it, if you found value in this show, we'd appreciate a rating wherever

578
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:16,600
you get your podcasts.

579
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:20,360
Or if you simply tell a friend about the show, that would help us out too.

580
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,340
Owen Murray is available for private coaching.

581
00:34:23,340 --> 00:34:26,320
See our website for details at yourhire.ie.

582
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:33,680
Until next time, do good, feel good, and be good.